The highs and lows of showbiz can be extreme (wonderfully described by actor Betty Gilpin here). Though not as volatile, I see many parallels between entertainment and other creative industries, including my own.

I used to dabble in the New York comedy scene — taking classes in improv and storytelling, seeing live shows multiple times a week. As both a comedy fan and dabbler, I’ve come across many budding talents, observed them get better over time, then slowly gain wider recognition for all their efforts. It’s similar to what I’ve seen happen for my peers in the design industry, and it’s always satisfying to see.

One example of someone I’ve witnessed “making it”, all while being highly creative, earning a living and staying relatively sane, is Bowen Yang of Saturday Night Live.

I’ve been following Bowen’s comedy since 2017, when he still held a day job as a graphic designer and was primarily known as co-host of the Las Culturistas podcast. I’m still a loyal listener, and I’ve enjoyed watching his star rise to SNL and beyond — not only because I love his sensibility, but because I’ve seen him put in years of work. I’m invested.

I recently rediscovered my notes from a conversation he had on Andy Richter’s podcast The Three Questions, back in March 2021. While wrapping up, the two comedians drop a series of gems that I feel are useful to creators of all kinds.

Here, Andy and Bowen talk about how they’ve stayed mentally afloat in the the choppy waters of show business. Edited for clarity — listen to the full episode here (this segment starts around the 57:00 mark).

ANDY RICHTER: One of the early lessons that I learned, because I saw people whose ambition and drive and goal was a thing or a position or a job. And they get it, and then they're still producing all this ‘gotta move forward’, ‘gotta get it’, ‘gotta gotta gotta’ stress … So early on, I realized your goal should be a process. Your goal should just be getting better ... Because the healthiest way to do this [career] is for the work stuff, as you go on, to matter less and less and less … It's the life that you build outside of it that really matters … I mean, there's work involved and there's stress involved, but it's fun. And if you just pursue it as fun, and if it matters less and less as you go on, that's the best, I think.

BOWEN YANG: I think that's it. I love that you say that the goal should be a process ... The thing about working at SNL, that I hope that people who work there in the future will realize, [is] that's it's a job where nothing is in your control, except the process, except the work. But everything else after that is not in your control whatsoever. And it feels kind of futile …

AR: Are there things that have surprised you? Are there things that you tell yourself to get along and continue on?

BY: I feel like the thing that I will remember for a while now is you saying that your goal should be a process. The other thing that's really stuck with me —Tony Hale [of Arrested Development] said this in an interview. [He was asked,] "Yo, what's your best advice on getting into comedy or showbiz?" And he said, 'Instead of thinking of investing in a career ... think of it as investing in a community, where you just kind of take care of the people in your circle who are also trying to do the same thing ...’.

AR: He’s right.

BY: It’s what appeals to me about the whole late-night structure of it [SNL]. It’s about the wellbeing of the unit. It sounds so chummy, but that's what’s sort of seen me through everything so far … I had friends coming up in comedy, whether it was in college or doing these little one-off shows I would produce in Brooklyn. We've always checked in with each other at times that felt very meaningful, and that's the thing that has almost nothing to do with comedy, but it just has to do with everyone looking out for one another. That's the biggest thing that I've come away with.

In summary, to stay grounded in a creative industry —

Detach yourself from specific outcomes.

Nothing is in your control except the work.

Make the process your goal.

Build a good life outside of work.

Invest in your creative community, not just your ‘career’.

Look out for each other.

If you were asked to sort various the parts of your life under the categories of ‘hobby’, ‘job’ ‘career’ or ‘vocation’, what words would fill each space? What would you find in the intersecting areas?

There’s a video on Youtube of writer Elizabeth Gilbert speaking on this subject that I visit from time to time. In it, she breaks down the differences between these four words that are often conflated — hobby, job, career and vocation. Prior to watching, I had never seen this subject so swiftly and artfully explained.

LINK TO VIDEO

Gilbert is a wildly successful writer. With a unique ability to connect to her many readers and fans, she is frequently asked for advice on leading a creative life. She even wrote a book devoted to the subject, Big Magic.

Throughout her career, Gilbert has been a huge proponent of creativity for creativity’s sake. She has argued that everyone is innately creative on some level — it’s part of who we are as a species. Although Gilbert has reached soaring heights in her own career, she doesn’t believe that everyone needs to turn their creative interests into a job. In Gilbert’s view, to insist that our creativity also pay our bills, is too much to ask of it.

For those like myself who have chosen a creative career path, I find her words reassuring. Our professional lives are often unpredictable. While the conditions of our careers are subject to change, the reason why we started — our love of the work — remains.

Here’s a summary of the aforementioned four words, defined by Gilbert. I also recommend watching the full video (it’s under 10 minutes).

HOBBY

“A hobby is something that you do purely for pleasure … Here's the wonderful thing about a hobby. The stakes are zero … You don't have to make money from your hobby. You don't have to get famous from your hobby. Nobody has to know anything about your hobby … You do not have to have a hobby. It is not required, but it’s a nice thing to have. It makes you feel like your life is just not about the grind.”

JOB

“The only thing that you actually do have to have is a job. You have to pay the bills … I never resented having a job because having a job was the way that I kept the contract of taking care of myself as a mature adult in the world, being reasonable, being rational, being able to pay my bills, being able to not be a burden on other people, not waiting for someone to come along and save me … Just taking care of myself, providing for myself.

Here's the great thing about a job — it doesn't have to be awesome. It doesn't have to fulfill you. It doesn't have to be joyful. It just has to pay. That's it. I've had so many jobs that I didn't love … Whatever! You go and do it, you give them the thing that you're giving them and you take the money in return. That's the exchange … If it's killing you, if it's toxic, if you're being abused and manipulated, if it's terrible — if you can get out of it, and if you get a better job — do it. But just recognize your job doesn't have to be your whole life.”

CAREER

“A career is a job that you are passionate about and that you love right now. A career is something where you're willing to make sacrifices. You're willing to work extra hours. You're willing to put your life on the line for this thing because you believe in the mission of what your career is. If you're in a career right now that you hate, that's terrible. If you're in a job that you hate, that's okay [laughs] ... If you're in a career that you can't stand, my suggestion is that you quit that career and just go get a job. Just go get a regular job to pay the bills so you can do other things … You should love your career or not have one. That's completely how I feel about careers. Not necessary. But if you have one, make sure you love it. Otherwise, there's no point. You're just grinding yourself out for nothing.”

VOCATION

“The holiest, most sacred, most amazing and mystical pursuit of all — vocation. A vocation is a calling. A vocation is a divine invitation. A vocation is the voice of the universe in your ear saying, ‘I want you to do this thing. I want to use your talents and gifts to make this thing. I want you to participate in the story of creation in this way’ … We are participants within creation. This is your piece of it — that's your vocation. It comes from the Latin [word meaning] ‘a calling’, ‘to be called’ … A vocation is the highest possible pursuit that you can do. Here's the amazing thing about having a vocation … Nobody can give it to you, and nobody can take it from you. Somebody can take your job away from you. Somebody can take your career away from you. Nobody can take your vocation away from you”.

In reflection, I created an illustration — an attempt to further distill Gilbert’s definitions of each word — hobby, job, career and vocation.